gapingvoid: "cartoons drawn on the back of business cards"

So right Hugh. Maybe why email is so poor at dealing with complexity - why Skype with better voice quality can get over more tone and hence more meaning. Why video will make it better and why in the end there is nothing better than face to face.

What seems to work well with blogging is the two way flow and the ability to get to know the thoughts of the other without interrupting them. IE I can visit your site for months before commenting and then only comment gently for a while.

Blogging can be very gentle.

PS

Talking about face to face - we can also experience even sex in a different way if we can see it as a conversation in your broader context. It can be getting your rocks off - nothing wrong with that. But if we also see its potential for communication it provides us with surely the ultimate way of exchanging energy and emotion as well

What is an appropriate metaphor for the kind of conversation you're talking about. Eyes across a room? Shugy boogie dancing? Shouted lyrics from a stage to willing receptacles, what now?

I don't mean to sound sarcastic when I put this to you, but have you not read any Marshall McLuhan?

Actually, its a lot more like the distinction James Carse makes in his book "Finite and Infinite Games" (1986, Free Press). Traditional business is a finite game. I win when I get you to buy something. I outsource support (if I have any at all, which as a paper-clip maker I might not) to some country half way 'round the world cause its "cheaper" there, since an ongoing relationship with the 'customer' is a cost-center for me.
Playing an infinite game with the customer transforms everything into a long-term (as in never ending) conversation where both sides listen... But there is a lot more to it than can be summarized in such a short space here (or on the blog proper even).

I can't speak for Hugh's reading habits, but I can say McLuhan was close friends with Howard Gossage, the legendary San Francisco ad man.

He also said, "All advertising advertises advertsing."

Hang on a second, mammagiggle, if that is your real name. 'A conversation' is the metaphor.

McLuhan: each new technology is an extension of man. A car replaces his legs, a tv supplants his mind, the internet gives him voice. Hence, the conversation.

Gossage: Go buy The Book of. And understand that the conversation is cybercouponing.

I think I get it
"Markets are conversations"
Yep, a metaphor.

+*hiccup*+

Don't worry, mama, it's merely an involuntary note signifying a diachronic irritation deep in the diaphragm. Gesundheit.

It's been far too long reading without commenting - so here goes...

I'm one of those people. I take it far too literally. Because (I am a tightass) the definition of the word conversation actually means oral or spoken communication. There are those of us who have read Cluetrain, and we get it what you're saying (and agree with it).

But perhaps you've addressed it here perfectly:

Smarter Communication.

Communication is a much broader term and it's really what you are referring to: The exchange of thoughts, messages, or information, as by speech, signals, writing, or behavior.

To me, the smartest "conversation" is the one that NEVER takes place. And it doesn't need to take place because we share a connection.

We Connect. We Communicate. And We Repeat (as long as it feels good).

Not sure I agree with you, Jon. "Conversation" is more metaphorical to me than "Communication"...

"Communication" is more descriptive, ergo, less interesting.

Plus, "Communication" has a lot of big media baggage as well ("the communication industry" etc)... historicly with these chaps communication prefers to be one way etc. Hardly conversational etc.

With Cluetrain, "Conversation" is a metaphor. Which is why it confuses so many folk.

It doesn't confuse me, I just don't agree that it is the best word. As I wrote in the email, the fear being that others take it literally and want to talk with us more... and we know what kind of conversation most of them want to have: "where is your money?"

What I do agree with is the Smarter part. I'm always interested in good conversation about something that I care about.

To speak [sic] perchance to dream.

I'm getting an embolism from all this semantical gyration. Customer-people are analog. Companies are digital. The analog employee-people within companies trying to respond to analog customer-people, and vice versa, would really appreciate it if the damn digital blackbox would park itself in the corner and just count the receipts while people get on about the business of reaching out to one other and bonding the way they were built to do before Adam Smith came along and got everyone twisted in their own knickers.

They can sing each other songs, argue, blow kisses, arm wrestle, or just bathe in each other''s glow. Beautiful, self-organizing markets of free choice. The medium is the message. The message is: *directed* communication is NOT conversation.

There. I'm done. I'll go stand in my corner now.