gapingvoid: "cartoons drawn on the back of business cards"

Seems thats the baggage of an entrenched culture youre talking about. Certainly the same can be said of England, Spain, etc etc. They are nice cozy cocoons in a way, but give me air!
But the US, even Manhattan isn't purely entreprenurial and fresh. It can be pretty ignorant, dont you think?

I agree with your assertion that the French lack "a raw, assertive inventiveness", but I still love being in Paris because of the French way of life.

I've written more about this on my blog, but for some reason the trackback ping to this post failed.

- http://www.blethers.com/weblog/archives/001751.php

I am really impressed by your analysis that is right to the point. Henry Miller referring to Paris and France in many of his writing was talking about the same thing albeit no mentioning "business". As someone going around with Tropic of Cancer in his luggage (I do the same very often), you may know this one: ""Paris is like a whore. From a distance she seems ravishing, you can't wait until you have her in your arms. And five minutes later you feel empty, disgusted with yourself. You feel tricked." As a Paris born exile of 20 years in Tokyo, I understand your point very much.

Hi,

Learn french, you will have a better understanding of the french culture.

Amicalement

Patricia
http://patriciaboaglio.typepad.com

Patricia, I would agree =)

Yeah, lots I don't understand. I hope I gave the impression that my views were coming from a very uninformed place.

I grew up in NY and spent a couple of years teaching in Germany (Munich, Stuttgart, Nuremberg) had lots of good times there, but they seem stuck in the past. Most things seemed to me to be looking backwards into the past instead of forwards into the future.

Cities are dead.

With the internet the prime reason for the existence of cities is gone. Cities exist to make it easier to talk to other people to conduct business. The Internet has taken on that mantle and you can have your conversations between basically anyone, anywhere.

I fear that the great cities like Paris will not be able to keep up with the times. Their refinement and discrimination will turn into snobbery and will fade into the twilight of irrelevancy.

As a 23 year old living in Paris for the last one year and something, I totally agree about the lack of dynamism of Paris and France, in general. The wages are not as high as in USA or even Germany, the latest trends get here a lot slower. The whole rythm is slow; walking in Paris on a Saturday morning or on a Sunday gives you the weird feeling of being in a desserted town. No shops opened, really scarce cars on the streets.
On the other hand, this is indeed the French style of living, and it's a great one. The way of "taking it à la legère", enjoying lunch and dinner in fancy restaurants, jogging every morning or evening, going out to cinema, theatre, opera or classical music concerts, reading the newest books.. These are values USA has been disregarding for too much time, with results such as illiteracy, obesity, stress and a general feeling of unfulfillment. Invention is not always the answer; nor is the overactive style of life. Enjoying your day is a much more pleasant one.
Will the French style survive as such in those modern, dynamic and innovative times? Probably not. But it is definitely the way of living that I wish for myself, my family and my friends.

I think Stephen's points about cities being dead is interesting because the Web allows connections without all the friction of cities. But the heat of that friction is a powerful attractor, and there's no Web site, email or even (horrors!) blog yet that gives me the buzz of Third Avenue on a Saturday night.

For a little more on this, see my trackback post (which also failed) at:

http://truetalk.typepad.com/truetalk/2004/11/walkin_in_paris.html

?
Domage vous avez raté quelque chose !
L'argent est au service de l'homme, et n'est qu'un symbole qui n'a que la valeur que chacun lui apporte. Nous préférons croire en Dieu ou en la vie que croire à des conneries. L'escargot laisse une coquille, et l'homme ne laisse que des idées et une ambiance qu'il a créée. Alors ton bisness, n'a que l'intérêt que nous accordons aux drogués, ou autres égarés diverses. L'important est de savoir profiter de chaque instant. Chaque seconde peut démarrer une nouvelle vie tendant vers l'infini, si tu n'a trouvé que de la matière à Paris, c'est que tu as un grave problème. Tant d'âmes et tant d'élans sont gravé sur les murs, qu'il est étonnant de ne rien voir.

"I just think they're more concerned with preserving what they've got, rather than finding new things to get excited about."

Perhaps there's nothing wrong with this. It seems that in the US, people get overly excited about things that don't deserve the excitement. Perhaps, if we were more like the French, we'd understand that slowness to excitement is a good thing. That being more selective about what we get excited about can be a means to slowing down our pace, and reducing the number of hours in OUR work week as well.

No. Nothing needs to change about the French work ethic, what needs to change is the American work ethic. The puritain wirk ethic needs to be dragged out into the street, and ceremonially burned, and replaced by something else. Something more...dare I say it.. European?

Yes indeedy Toadmaster. There is no absolute 'good' value in hyper-innovation or hyper-productivity. I fear that the concepts underlying the French culture so-discussed may be outside of understanding for many in the US.

It seems to me that the values underlying quality of life have been replaced largely by consumables here in the US. Creativity has been marginalized to a type of profit generating business. The idea of business has become The Option, the justification, for what can and can't be considered. Most people just think there are 3 options, and indeed it would seem so largely as it is so pervasive in our culture -- you get a job, you own a business, or you are rich.

Even academia has become more and more like a business. I would argue that it is not because it is better but because it is more efficient along certain metrics -- and the other metrics, the ones that measure our happiness, are ignored.

Even dissatisfied people in the US look at you in dismay when you pronounce the need to end the Puritan Work Ethic. What else could there be? La raison d'être, perhaps?

I did some computer work a decade ago for a Middle-Easterner who had homes in NYC and Paris.

I said "Paris seems like a good place to live." And he replied "it's a good place to spend money, but a a horrible place to make money. There's no opportunity unless you come from inside the establishment."

"Perhaps there's nothing wrong with this."

Perhaps indeed, Toadmaster. I didn't say it was wrong. I like France and the French, remember ;-)

I was just saying; there is a price... just like there's a price for everything.

But it's a heavy price, let's not kid ourselves. I think the France's great skill is to make it appear lighter than it actually is.

Hugh,

Perhaps we're talking past each other here. You seem to be talking about real costs, where I'm actually talking about value...I think. What value do we get out of the raw agressive feeling you feel on the streets of Manhattan compared with the value you feel walking the streets of Paris? I agree, Civilization has it's costs, to be sure, but, it seems to me, that some things are beyond cost. A friend of mine always tells me (sausage - who also responded to this thread), "If I cash in Time, what do I get in return?" I've been thinking about that for some time now, and haven't come up with an answer that I like.

"Some things are beyond cost"?

You want to explain that to me?

I get the feeling:

1. You are American.

2. You have a very idealized view of Europe.

;-)

I'm 28 years old french guy, living in Paris for almost 5 years, and also entrepreneur.

I get often excited about having new ideas, that make our world grow so quick, and find that fascinating. I'm always looking enviously to the US, UK... that always takes so many risks in life to get quick "on the market" with new ideas.

It's also true that most of the time I do not find the counterpart behavior in my friends, that work 35 hours a week for governementals companies, taking 8 to 9 weeks of holidays a year...

But I understand my fellow countrymen in a certain way.

Since 1789, the French always fight to keep or get privileges a human being deserves.

Lots of french companies have internal syndicates that permanentely looks for the comfort of the employees.
So since almost 300 years, most of us get so comfortable in life, why to change?

Also I feel lots of French have ideas to make the world change, but they are scared of moving.
It's easy to understand. When you are employee in France you work 35h a week, get social security, and the government continues to pay your salary for 2 years every months if you loose your job.

If you want to start a business, you loose all privileges. On every single $$$ (or EURO let's say) you make, the government takes 50%
Because of that most of our best brains leave the country to work and earn double or triple salary in another country.

On top of that our government doesn't encourage innovation. They under pay scientist, they fire teachers...
I feel they kind of "punish" the people who fails and take all the money to the ones that succeed.

To resume :
- you have lots of privileges when you are an employee
- if you are a risk taker and start your own business and succeed, the government take you so many taxes that sometimes you get bankrupted
- if you start you loose all the privileges you get before ( no holidays, social security, unemployment protection...)

That's why the french are obsessed by failing and most of them keep their ideas in their heads and do nothing.

I already asked myself several time : why did I start my company in France? I work like hell (much more than when I was an employee) to have no free time and I get half salary.

So sometimes I say to myself : my fellow countrymen do not seem to like innovation, neither fo they like changments or risk taking, but after all, who said that we're on earth to work ?
So I get quiet and go to take a coffee...

Cadrey,

It seems to me that what your country is doing is over-reacting to the abusive control of the plutocracy ('vis-à-vis', one side of the same coin, aristocracy). While this reaction is unfortunate it is understandable. The US is certainly headed in this direction (of reacting to plutomania, as it were) though whether they will swing into a hard-core 'workers State', smash into an economic wall, or simply learn how to do things without supporting the extreme excesses of capitalism can't be predicted by me.

I believe that following World War II European cultures, to some degree (I am not terribly fond of concrete idealizations myself), recognized some inherent social problems with rampant industrialization and 'progress'. To this extent it is not uncommon to hear the words "but after all, who said that we're on earth to work?" from Europeans -- but not from 'Americans' (sorry Canada).

Here is where Toadmaster and Hugh MacCleod have 'talked past each other', most likely. I think that Toadmaster is reacting to the unchecked support of so-called 'corporate innovation' where rampant individualism (and/or corporatization) is supported at any cost. The 'idealized' view, certainly an aspect of French culture, of not innovating at any cost in this sense may not be a bad thing at all.

I believe, however, that we all recognize that, despite possible disagreements about social welfare versus liberarian individualism (e.g., Conservatism, in reality), that innovation may be motivated by more than profits ($$$). Indeed, social welfare and community may be a stronger and more innovative system -- when not punished. Example, as always anymore with me, is the Open Source community and the Internet.

This is a deep subject and while certainly understood by a few may not be familiar -- though it would be understandable -- to many. I'm certainly not the best to convey it either, so I'm not sure if I made a lot of sense.

In any case, I enjoy the comments and immensely enjoy your site Hugh.

Regarding Paris -- for me, the city itself is like an extension of some grand poem...

"Fourmillante cite, cite plein de reves,
Ou le spectre, en plein jour, raccroche le passant!
Les mysteres partout coulent comme des seves
Dans les canaux etroits du colosse puissant."
-Charles Baudelaire

Great insight btw...

Next time you need an english-to-french translation, mlet me know... ;-)